Forums › Advice Q&A › Run Differences
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February 12, 2008 at 2:57 am #181Maybe someone can answer this for me. I started riding this past November, and maybe have been out 8-10 times, each time spending at least 4-5 hours riding. I guess for a newbie I am pretty good, I am already getting confident enough to catch about 6 inches of air off of bumps. But my question has to do with consistency of designating runs on different resorts.Before this season I had never stepped foot on a ski resort, but had already heard of the types of runs; Green, Blue, Black, Double Diamond. By the end of December I had already started experimenting with Blue trails since the flat parts of Green trails had me frustrated cause I constantly came to a stop. But at some resorts, I have noticed extreme differences in how difficult the blue runs were at different resorts. For example I noticed at Echo Mtn, and Breckenridge the Blue runs were very simple, even thMaybe someone can answer this for me. I started riding this past November, and maybe have been out 8-10 times, each time spending at least 4-5 hours riding. I guess for a newbie I am pretty good, I am already getting confident enough to catch about 6 inches of air off of bumps. But my question has to do with consistency of designating runs on different resorts.Before this season I had never stepped foot on a ski resort, but had already heard of the types of runs; Green, Blue, Black, Double Diamond. By the end of December I had already started experimenting with Blue trails since the flat parts of Green trails had me frustrated cause I constantly came to a stop. But at some resorts, I have noticed extreme differences in how difficult the blue runs were at different resorts. For example I noticed at Echo Mtn, and Breckenridge the Blue runs were very simple, even the steep slopes. However at A-Basin and Keystone I thought I was going to tumble down the mountain in a white cloud of snow because they were so steep and fast. Is this typical of ski resorts to have great variances in degrees of difficulty? I hate to go back to green runs because of the flat areas, but I definitely don't want to ride out of control. Or does this highlight the learning curve of snowboarding. For example the resorts I went to since riding blues have been Keystone, A-Basin, Keystone, Echo Mtn, Keystone, A-Basin, and Breckenridge. And while at Breck this past weekend I was having such an easy time on the Blues I was tempted to go on some Blacks until I saw that they were all moguls. Is this typical? Or am I crazy?February 12, 2008 at 7:00 pm #2694Every mountain is going to rate their run difficulties slightly differently. There is no real official standard to it.Why do different ski areas rate so differently from others?For marketing purposes. When you are looking through a magazine or through a web site that details specifications of a ski area, the management of the ski area will attempt to tweak the percentages of runs to what type of customer they are trying to attract.You mentioned A-Basin… Perfect example. The area is one big granite cliff. Almost all black and double black diamond trails. Now there are plenty of skiers/riders who have a blast there, but typically they are locals, ski bums, or individuals. Needless to say, when you take that demographic and compare it to families, groups, and adventure seeking tourists, you can guess which one have the most money to spend. The second group ofEvery mountain is going to rate their run difficulties slightly differently. There is no real official standard to it.Why do different ski areas rate so differently from others?For marketing purposes. When you are looking through a magazine or through a web site that details specifications of a ski area, the management of the ski area will attempt to tweak the percentages of runs to what type of customer they are trying to attract.You mentioned A-Basin… Perfect example. The area is one big granite cliff. Almost all black and double black diamond trails. Now there are plenty of skiers/riders who have a blast there, but typically they are locals, ski bums, or individuals. Needless to say, when you take that demographic and compare it to families, groups, and adventure seeking tourists, you can guess which one have the most money to spend. The second group of course. For that reason, the management at A-basin (and other comparable mountains like Crested Butte, Jackson Hole, Alyeska, etc…) tweaks their maps to attract the bigger money crowd.The opposite case is true with more “rinky dink” mountains taking an obvious blue trail and marking it “black diamond”. They do it to say to the public, “Hey, we are small but we have skiing for ALL ability levels!”Don't get me wrong, I am not criticizing them or saying that they are being flat out dishonest. Many many trails are borderline and need to get designated one way or the other. Conditionals and grooming play a major role as well. When mountain management rate their trails, they do so at the advise and approval of ski patrol and reserve the right to do so.As a rider, it is your responsibility to know your ability level and survey the mountain and the conditions and decide if a trail is right for you or not. You must know “the code” and abide by it. If you are asking yourself, “What does Frosty mean by The Code?” then you better pay attention. When you buy a lift ticket you automatically agree to abide by the “Skier / Rider Responsibility Code”.Your Responsibility Code 1. Always stay in control, and be able to stop or avoid other people or objects. Part of your responsibility as a skier/snowboarder is to be in control at all times on the slopes. Be aware of your speed and the speed of those around you to maintain safe skiing on the slopes. 2. People ahead you have the right of way. It is your responsibility to avoid them.When approaching other skiers and snowboarders on the slopes, remain a clear distance from them when passing. Watch for skiers making quick turns to the right and left in front of you. Keep distance from the skier or snowboarder in front of you to allow for enough room to stop or swerve if they make a sudden turn or stop. 3. You must not stop where you obstruct a trail, or are not visible from above. If you need to take a rest or wait for friends on the slopes, select a spot on the trail where you can be clearly seen by someone approaching from above. Do not stop in the middle of a trail-move to the side. 4. Whenever starting downhill or merging into a trail, look uphill and yield to others. Keep an eye out for skiers up the hill as you enter a trail. It is your responsibility to make sure the trail is clear before entering or beginning again. 5. Always use devices to help prevent runaway equipment. Safety straps and ski stops are required to make sure a lost ski or snowboard does not injure another skier. 6. Observe all posted signs and warnings. Keep off closed trails and out of all closed areas. Obey the closed trail signs. Trails are closed due to avalanche danger, unstable conditions or exposed rocks and terrain. 7. Prior to using any lift, you must have knowledge and the ability to load, ride and unload safely. Stay within your ability and board lifts carefully and safely. Ask lift operators for help if unsure about loading and unloading procedures.Know the CodeYour Responsibility Code was established in 1966 by the National Ski Areas Association as a code of ethics for all skiers on the mountain. Today, the code reflects not only skier safety, but snowboarder and lift safety as well.In places like Colorado, the code is STATE LAW and disobeying it can get you in trouble with the law!I guess my point is that if you enter a blue run and have the attitude that “If I get hurt and I think this is out of line for what a Blue run aught to be then the resort is responsible.” then you are wrong wrong wrong.I don't like to end on a negative note, but that's all I have for now 🙂 HAVE FUN!February 12, 2008 at 7:31 pm #2695Unfortunately for all of us, the slope designation system is more a guideline that a hard and fast rule. There is no scientific measurement as to what defines a gleen, blue, or black slope, so its up to each individual resort to determine for themselves, hence all the variation. So what may be a black slope in A-Basin may be a blue in Keystone, etc etc etc. There is even variation within each category; i've been down two different blue slopes in the same resort and found one to be way easier than another. PLUS there are mogul runs and groomed/ungroomed runs that can dramatically change the difficultly of the terrain (depending on your skills), so it can get pretty confusing up there. You might as well get used to it, consistency is not something you're gonna find in nature. Just go with the flow, develop your skills and you'll have a good time regarUnfortunately for all of us, the slope designation system is more a guideline that a hard and fast rule. There is no scientific measurement as to what defines a gleen, blue, or black slope, so its up to each individual resort to determine for themselves, hence all the variation. So what may be a black slope in A-Basin may be a blue in Keystone, etc etc etc. There is even variation within each category; i've been down two different blue slopes in the same resort and found one to be way easier than another. PLUS there are mogul runs and groomed/ungroomed runs that can dramatically change the difficultly of the terrain (depending on your skills), so it can get pretty confusing up there. You might as well get used to it, consistency is not something you're gonna find in nature. Just go with the flow, develop your skills and you'll have a good time regardless of the terrain!February 12, 2008 at 10:00 pm #2696
Thanks for the info. Being a new rider I wasn't sure if what I was experiencing was the “normal learning curve” or just designation variances. What you guys said makes a lot of sense about attracting different crowds. Pretty much each time I have been out I have tried new/different trails to gain some experience in riding different terrains, powder, cords, moguls, steeps and flats, etc. I have found myself a few times out on a trail that is above my ability and when I find myself there I just leaf and plow the remaining way down till I can get off the trail or when it gets easier. But it is definitely more exhilarating to be going down a 30-40 degree pitch then to be running on flat areas, having to unstrap and ski the while in the middle of a trail is kinda lame.
February 13, 2008 at 1:13 am #2697… different terrains, powder, cords, moguls, steeps and flats, etc…
If you have experienced and know the difference in all these, I hereby dub thee a Non-Newbie!
February 21, 2008 at 12:37 am #2712For marketing purposes. When you are looking through a magazine or through a web site that details specifications of a ski area, the management of the ski area will attempt to tweak the percentages of runs to what type of customer they are trying to attract.You mentioned A-Basin… Perfect example. The area is one big granite cliff. Almost all black and double black diamond trails. Now there are plenty of skiers/riders who have a blast there, but typically they are locals, ski bums, or individuals. Needless to say, when you take that demographic and compare it to families, groups, and adventure seeking tourists, you can guess which one have the most money to spend. The second group of course. For that reason, the management at A-basin (and other comparable mountains like Crested Butte, Jackson Hole, Alyeska, etc…) tweaks their maps to attra
For marketing purposes. When you are looking through a magazine or through a web site that details specifications of a ski area, the management of the ski area will attempt to tweak the percentages of runs to what type of customer they are trying to attract.You mentioned A-Basin… Perfect example. The area is one big granite cliff. Almost all black and double black diamond trails. Now there are plenty of skiers/riders who have a blast there, but typically they are locals, ski bums, or individuals. Needless to say, when you take that demographic and compare it to families, groups, and adventure seeking tourists, you can guess which one have the most money to spend. The second group of course. For that reason, the management at A-basin (and other comparable mountains like Crested Butte, Jackson Hole, Alyeska, etc…) tweaks their maps to attract the bigger money crowd.The opposite case is true with more “rinky dink” mountains taking an obvious blue trail and marking it “black diamond”. They do it to say to the public, “Hey, we are small but we have skiing for ALL ability levels!”
Haha thats funny Frosty
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